new project

[chris white]

HI folks, been off line for a while trying to get things done - but I thought this might be a good time to put out a thread on a developing project.
I was contacted about building a run of engine for a project and next thing you know I’m getting involved deeper and deeper. We are in the development stage of the entire concept and always looking for thoughts / ideas….so here it is:
The Ultimate 944 turn key restomod series
First run of 10 cars
Drivetrain: 2.5l turbo – 400 crank HP
• Nikasil sleeved
• Balanced, polished and shot peened crank
• ACL rod bearings
• Aftermarket rods
• Custom Mahle Pistons
• Stronger head studs
• Viton Head gasket
• Performance valve job
• Xona rotor turbo (custom)
• 4 into 1 headers
• Tial wastegate
• Full exhaust (very particular about sound quality)
• Upgraded clutch
• Link stand alone with all the do dads.
Chassis
• RIaction Coil overs
• Tubular lower control arms
• Torsion bar delete
• Brakes overhaul (big brake option)
Body
• Body striped and repainted – high quality finish
• Interior replaced with upgraded material – leather or Alcantra dash, new updated door panels and seats
• Improved Lighting
• New Rear bump / facia – looking at several designs to update the look without losing the Porsche feel.
• Audio to be updated – still in planning but most likely ad double din screen with streaming and GPS (hopefully engine parameter display too)
Wheels – Nice ones (!). Looking at the 17” Fikse Fuchs replicas. Lots of other choices.
Lots of details under consideration – any input would be appreciated.
This is a ‘Singer-esk’ concept at ¼ of the Singer price. Its not the typical DIY market, we are thinking about the well funded individual that wants a nice vehicle as a fun car – but not a wrencher. Has to be of utmost quality and fully dependable.
A good comparison might be somebody thinking about a new Cayman. $100kish but now you might be the 50th one in your town. Great car but not a ‘special’ car. For around the same cost you could have a “new and improved” 944.

So….what does the group think?

[ROB III]

This addresses the post from MoeMonney from Sept 15th about RestoMods. search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&auth ... 4&start=10 . I really like the idea and with your background, knowledge, and history I believe the package would be great. And you have briefly addressed the big question in my mind of who is the buyer and why.
The 944 platform seems to be gathering steam on line and in general. There are numerous 944 groups on FB and they are growing and active. A concern I would have is the depth of the buyer pool. The 944 crowd are GENERALLY DIY (I think one of the drivers for FB proliferation), but perhaps its time for a one stop shop approach...more than just a great garage but a total package provider for mechanical, electrical, suspension, trim, paint....etc. I'm very interested in following this and what others will have to say. The whole 944/951 package seems undervalued by Porsche enthusiasts and the public in general, and some posters here who have deep knowledge of the potential have shared what can be done. I've had my car for 20 years and when talking to other long time Porsche enthusiasts, many, if not most, have stated they had a 944 at one time and really liked/missed their car.
Thank you for sharing!

[chris white]

I’ve been around long enough to see the ‘Porsche curve’ applied to many models. In the 80’s 914s were considered worthless and the 356s were cheap but only weird people wanted them. Every model goes through the same steps – new, depreciated, cheap and plentiful…then when few really good ones are left the price starts to go up and people start having fond memories!
996 were considered the antichrist for being water cooled. For a while you could get really nice ones for $15k. now its 3x that.
The DIY folks are right at home in the ‘cheap and unloved’ phase. Great deals on very good cars. That was 10 years ago for the 944. Very high quality original cars are really getting pricey. As price goes up so does the general public opinion, especially the collection opinion. Now that special example of 944/968 have gone over $100k at auction it’s a different world.
356 and 914 used to be all DIY people. Not anymore. Will the 944 follow? Probably not to the same extent but its going in that general direction. If you watch any of the actions there are a lot of restomod cars going for healthy prices if done in a quality way.
In batches of 10 the buyer pool does not have to be very deep.
Just imagine being able to walk into a store (virtual or otherwise) and order a ‘new’ 944 in the interior / exterior color you wanted. 3liter engine option….and it could be bank financed for less than the price of a used 911.

[blueline]

This project is fascinating Chris. Outside of the obvious turn key candy mentioned in your post, something you wrote that sticks out to me is this line: "Its not the typical DIY market, we are thinking about the well funded individual that wants a nice vehicle as a fun car – but not a wrencher. Has to be of utmost quality and fully dependable."

That notion would intrigue and greatly widen any prospective buyers pool, a smart objective that Rob also mentioned with his nod about you having addressed the "who and why" of possible buyers.

What a treat your "Ultimate 944" would be if it all came together as planned!

[Tom]

Wishing your project well Chris! I've often thought there was room for a Singer-style 944 (and the 928 for that matter). When I was writing for Pano, I interviewed a guy doing Singer-like cars and one thing he said stuck with me. He said people 'think' they want their old dream cars until the drive them, so his business was all about making old cars feel, look, sound, smell and perform like modern cars -- all without losing the essence of the car. Honestly, I'm not sure $100k can do it if you really want to re-engineer it and make it like a Singer. Everything adds up so fast, and Singers are Singers because they obsess on literally every piece in the car. If you do it, I'm thinking you should go big! You target demographic is looking more at the car than the price tag. Look at the Cyan P1800 for inspiration...

[blade7]

What size turbo/how much boost? I've had a lot of parts in my garage for years, just getting motivated to start fitting some of them. 400 crank sounds enough for road use and longevity.

[P_Coastal]

Are design sketches planned?
I know we would love to see them

[Tom]

Are design sketches planned?
I know we would love to see them

oooo.... I change my answer to that!

[ROB III]

Tom, you've been doing the same or similar evolutionary process on your car (with interior, gauges, suspension, engine, etc) for quite some time, just one step at a time. And I think Thom has been doing the same thing, though I haven't seen his interior but his powertrain and stability results always sound impressive. In a separate off line correspondence, he shared some V12 audio he made which led me to ponder how do we make a turbo four SOUND like a 6 -8-10-12. Engine/exhaust sound is SOOO much of the experience. And you also bring up a critical point, "people 'think' they want their old dream cars until they drive them, so his business was all about making old cars feel, look, sound, smell and perform like modern cars -- all without losing the essence of the car"; its so critical to pay close attention to the feedback to the driver for the essence of the car to satisfy the tactile needs for enjoyable driving.
I find this whole discussion fascinating...Thanks Chris for kicking this off!

[MoeMonney]

Its great the thread I started in September was mentioned. The reason I started it was to find out what the community thought.

I reached out to Chris and we started this project. The idea is that we build a car that is enjoyable to drive, Something you can track from time to time yet drive across country in comfort, Looks cool and is different from whats out there. The 951 is a great platform to build it.

We will be posting updates soon. Feedback is always welcome and looking forwards to putting this together!