Need MaxxECU base tune

[944m3]

Stock cams as far as I know.

[SirLapsalot]

With engine tuning there are so many variables that can effect end result, including at idle. It's difficult to compare control and calibration settings to other peoples unless your setup is exactly the same.

You say you're running open loop idle, do you mean open loop fuel control only? Or open loop ICV and Ignition Timing control?

To set the idle speed/control I wouldn't worry about what your vacuum amount is, that's a strange thing thing to target, never heard of that. Since your ECU surely has ignition timing idle control I'd recommend using that. Ignition timing control at idle is very effective as ignition timing effects torque MUCH quicker than airflow (ICV), so transients when fans kick on, AC kicks on, power steering loads are applied will be super smooth.

To set your base idle ignition timing, it's often recommended to start at something like 10-15deg, then find MBT by advancing timing until your engine speed stops increasing (advancing timing will increase torque which will in turn increase engine speed). Once your engine speed stops increasing with timing you've found MBT. You then want to retard 5-8deg from there so that the PID control will have room to advance or retard and be able to control the engine speed. i.e. If you were to stop at MBT then if the system needed to increase torque to keep from idle speed dropping when A/C is turned on, rad fans turned on, etc., it wouldn't be able to.

Again, I wouldn't compare too much to others, but for reference, with my standalone I found best results at 0.95 lambda, ICV open loop, Ignition timing closed loop with a base timing of 18deg. I have rock solid idle speed in all conditions.

[944m3]

Thanks for the tip. I’ll give that a try and see what it does to my idle AFR. Great information.

I believe I’m currently using open loop idle using ICV, but not sure if that is with fuel or ignition. But I do have the option to go closed loop with control over ignition or fuel or both.

Just for clarity, when you say the engine speed stops increasing you are talking about RPM, correct? Your instructions make sense though. Will give it a try. As I’ve mentioned, I’m happy with current idle just not sure if AFR is to rich at 12.5. Curious to see if this changes AFR at all.

That being said, I’m sure I can improve on things so I’ll try everything.

[SirLapsalot]

Ok my bad I may have misunderstood your concern. Setting up idle ignition control will only help ensure a stable idle. Won’t affect your lambda.

You’ll want to make sure your VE table is squared away first as well as your open loop ICV calibrations.

To answer your question, yes I mean rpm when referring to engine speed.

Tuning is a ton of fun but can very easily lead to damage or many bandaids applied on top of eachother if you take a learn as you go approach. Online research is also risky bc there is so much misinformation out there. It sounds like you’re very green, so I’d suggest paying for something like HPAcademy tuning classes or EFI Academy. They’re totally worth the money and will result in a lot less frustration and confusion for you down the line.

[944m3]

I agree that you can end up with layers of bandaids, trying to compensate for each error in other areas. And yup will eventually take some online courses, but first I want to learn as much as I can on my own. I’m more of a hands-on learner. It’s been fun so far and the MaxxECU has been great.

[ealoken]

I agree that you can end up with layers of bandaids, trying to compensate for each error in other areas. And yup will eventually take some online courses, but first I want to learn as much as I can on my own. I’m more of a hands-on learner. It’s been fun so far and the MaxxECU has been great.

I recommend to join the maxxecu group on Facebook.

Your self learning might cause other weird problems.

[walfreyydo]

With engine tuning there are so many variables that can effect end result, including at idle. It's difficult to compare control and calibration settings to other peoples unless your setup is exactly the same.

You say you're running open loop idle, do you mean open loop fuel control only? Or open loop ICV and Ignition Timing control?

To set the idle speed/control I wouldn't worry about what your vacuum amount is, that's a strange thing thing to target, never heard of that. Since your ECU surely has ignition timing idle control I'd recommend using that. Ignition timing control at idle is very effective as ignition timing effects torque MUCH quicker than airflow (ICV), so transients when fans kick on, AC kicks on, power steering loads are applied will be super smooth.

To set your base idle ignition timing, it's often recommended to start at something like 10-15deg, then find MBT by advancing timing until your engine speed stops increasing (advancing timing will increase torque which will in turn increase engine speed). Once your engine speed stops increasing with timing you've found MBT. You then want to retard 5-8deg from there so that the PID control will have room to advance or retard and be able to control the engine speed. i.e. If you were to stop at MBT then if the system needed to increase torque to keep from idle speed dropping when A/C is turned on, rad fans turned on, etc., it wouldn't be able to.

Again, I wouldn't compare too much to others, but for reference, with my standalone I found best results at 0.95 lambda, ICV open loop, Ignition timing closed loop with a base timing of 18deg. I have rock solid idle speed in all conditions.

All great info. I read somewhere you should tune idle timing to have max vacuum (I think I read it on the megasquirt forums), but I have also run idle timing as low as 10 degrees in the past, so Ill probably back it down a bit.

FWIW I am running open loop idle control (ICV is not dynamic, but static).

Ignition timing is set in the table, but I do have advance setup if it drops below 800 rpm (like if you turn on AC or headlights, etc), so I guess its quasi-closed loop ignition timing in that regard, I have it setup to advance timing by up to 6 degrees if it falls below 800rpm.

I found a lot of great info from the diyautotune website (this is specific to TunerStudio/Megasquirt, but the fundamentals still apply) as well as the youtube channel "Turbine Research" for alot of my learning/tuning knowledge. There is still a ton to learn though that I still want to implement some day (like sequential injection, CoP ignition(worth it?), knock tuning/filtering, etc etc).

[SirLapsalot]

With engine tuning there are so many variables that can effect end result, including at idle. It's difficult to compare control and calibration settings to other peoples unless your setup is exactly the same.

You say you're running open loop idle, do you mean open loop fuel control only? Or open loop ICV and Ignition Timing control?

To set the idle speed/control I wouldn't worry about what your vacuum amount is, that's a strange thing thing to target, never heard of that. Since your ECU surely has ignition timing idle control I'd recommend using that. Ignition timing control at idle is very effective as ignition timing effects torque MUCH quicker than airflow (ICV), so transients when fans kick on, AC kicks on, power steering loads are applied will be super smooth.

To set your base idle ignition timing, it's often recommended to start at something like 10-15deg, then find MBT by advancing timing until your engine speed stops increasing (advancing timing will increase torque which will in turn increase engine speed). Once your engine speed stops increasing with timing you've found MBT. You then want to retard 5-8deg from there so that the PID control will have room to advance or retard and be able to control the engine speed. i.e. If you were to stop at MBT then if the system needed to increase torque to keep from idle speed dropping when A/C is turned on, rad fans turned on, etc., it wouldn't be able to.

Again, I wouldn't compare too much to others, but for reference, with my standalone I found best results at 0.95 lambda, ICV open loop, Ignition timing closed loop with a base timing of 18deg. I have rock solid idle speed in all conditions.

All great info. I read somewhere you should tune idle timing to have max vacuum (I think I read it on the megasquirt forums), but I have also run idle timing as low as 10 degrees in the past, so Ill probably back it down a bit.

FWIW I am running open loop idle control (ICV is not dynamic, but static).

Ignition timing is set in the table, but I do have advance setup if it drops below 800 rpm (like if you turn on AC or headlights, etc), so I guess its quasi-closed loop ignition timing in that regard, I have it setup to advance timing by up to 6 degrees if it falls below 800rpm.

I found a lot of great info from the diyautotune website (this is specific to TunerStudio/Megasquirt, but the fundamentals still apply) as well as the youtube channel "Turbine Research" for alot of my learning/tuning knowledge. There is still a ton to learn though that I still want to implement some day (like sequential injection, CoP ignition(worth it?), knock tuning/filtering, etc etc).

Interesting, I’ll check out that YouTube channel, thanks.

Regarding knock…under no circumstances would I ever run without knock control!! As good as the knock control is and as easy (relatively speaking) it is to calibrate with standalone ECUs there’s no legitimate reason not to take the time to do it!

Especially on these stupid 944 motors. Hyper knock limited and sensitive.

[walfreyydo]

For a Turbo application I couldnt agree more, but Im running an naturally aspirated S2 so less worried about knock, and my ignition timing is pretty conservative (approximately at stock timing levels) as well as running 93 octane most of the time.

At some point I would like to dial in ignition timing (on a dyno) to maximize HP and probably wouldn't feel comfortable doing that without knock sensing since it would be hard to tell where that limit is, and I dont think you can always hear an engine ping, especially if its a loud exhaust or overall loud engine.

Figuring out how to setup knock filtering in TunerStudio and doing/testing it on the street has been the biggest obstacle.

[SirLapsalot]

Ah yes, NA is a different story.

If you do make it to the dyno then I’d suggest snagging one of these first if you haven’t seen them already. The Link offering is much simpler and more affordable but works very well. It interfaces with Link ECU software which I find super handy but it also works just as a standalone knock ears. I won’t ever put a car on the dyno to tune without it, except in some unique cases were it’s super difficult to get to the OE knock sensor location to add a sensor or there’s nowhere good on the block to mount one.

https://www.plex-tuning.com/product/knock-detection/

https://dealers.linkecu.com/G4PlusKnockBlock