I think you're correct that all the metal pieces don't warm to their optimal temperature when the oil reaches 200 degrees, but the main reason for getting the oil that hot is to burn off the fuel and water that are present in it, a natural occurrence in any ICE engine to one degree or another. For on track situations, it would be prudent to warm everything somewhat longer than the time required to get the oil hot.
blueline wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:24 am
Referring to current gen vehicles and Porsche in particular, this is the exact quote from my '22 911 TTS owner's manual on page 126 under the "Starting the engine" section:
"Do not warm up the engine when stationary. Drive off immediately. Avoid high engine speeds and full throttle until the engine has reached operating temperature."
This would not apply to older vehicles which takes me full circle back to having an awareness of what one's driving and always using good judgement.
That quote is what prompted me to ask. I guess it's intentionally vague since there are too many variables to specify in an owner's handbook -- maybe to your point of just being mindful and sensible during warm-up.
I ask because I make a frequent trip to see my elderly parents, who live about 10 miles away. The oil doesn't get to 200+ until I'm near at their house (maybe 8 or 9 miles of driving). Being a neurotic, the drive over tends to be less fun than the drive home... So just curious how my neuroses compared to others...
Just like water temp isn't a great proxy for engine temps, since it heats up so much faster than everything else, I assume oil gets to its full temp before all the metal bits in the engine have expanded to their full operating temp tolerances. So is 8 or 9 miles even enough? These are the things that keep me up at night.
Incidentally, I assume my car has an oil thermostat to block off the oil cooler as it warms up (just like the coolant thermostat). I can't remember the exact temp, but suspect the oil thermostat opens in somewhere in the 180F's. I say this because it always gets up to that temp, then hangs at that temp for a while, and then starts climbing again. My suspicion is the oil thermostat is opening in that range, which slows the heating process (after dumping unheated oil from the cooler into the motor). So maybe Porsche thinks mid-180F oil is fully warmed up?
This topic has now led me to make a point of planning on paying some measure of attention to oil temps at initial drive-offs to see how they develop, for some kind of a reference if nothing else. (Now you've introduced a "hmmmm" moment in me - hopefully no additional neurosis and/or neuroses develop. Ha!)
I'm kind of drawn to the tire temp/tire pressure quandary that so many talk about for track days or racing. Someone very wise in that regard told me not to overthink tire pressures. He is a very well-known pro racer who is regularly consulted by teams and several tire manufacturers worldwide regarding all aspects of tires and associated setups. I'll probably stick to a version of that adage by using the "common sense" approach in newer vehicles, altering as necessary as I always have to account for older vehicles or those with potentially special needs.
So, in that vein, my advice might be to hold off on the pedal to the floor* in your TTS for the short drive to your parent's home. Spirited a bit? I'd say sure after a decent warm-up, but yes, I'm with you, not full throttle. Depending on the length of your visit, on the way back home however...
*My take is that there are not an abundance of decently safe places where one can one actually do that for more than a few seconds in our modern rocket ships, especially considering today's traffic-snarled, pot-holed roads full of the world's crappiest, always distracted, just-point-the-car-in-the-general-direction-you-want-to-go, I-don't-give-a-damn drivers. (Cracker-Jack box driver licenses. Don't get me started...)
Re: When is the car warmed-up?
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 1:32 pm
by toddinmd
When I did European delivery, I was told to warm the oil to around ~160-165 before getting on it.
On my 991.2 GT3 it has a cold engine light, when this light is on the engine is cold and the ECU limits the rpm's to 7k. The light goes out at 45 degrees Celsius (113 Fahrenheit). But I still wait for 160.
As far as the water temp at 194, and interesting thing I found with my 981 and pulling data on the track, the water temp gauge is more like an idiot light. The gauge will be at 194, but the real water temp can be higher if you poll the data from the OBD.
Re: When is the car warmed-up?
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 6:04 pm
by 911R
I say when the oil temperatures get warm within all of the engine.
The H2O temps mean nothing to me. I'd only be comfortable when all the internals get very warm.
My Porsche 997.1, 991.1, and the first 992 all got warm earlier as they had the oil in the oil pan.
My Porsche Turbo and the GT3 has a dry sump oil system. It has no oil pan, but a big tank to move more warm oil to the engine for better speed and reliability. Porsche liked winning races this way.
Porsche invented this in 1965. All of the earlier cars had a septate dry sump tank. You had to warm the entire engine first to check the oil level. You had to check it warm with the engine still idling. It had an oil level thing on the dry sump tank.
My 1973 Porsche 911:
My 2023 Porsche 911:
Re: When is the car warmed-up?
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:10 pm
by Tom
911R wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 6:04 pm
I say when the oil temperatures get warm within all of the engine.
The H2O temps mean nothing to me. I'd only be comfortable when all the internals get very warm.
My Porsche 997.1, 991.1, and the first 992 all got warm earlier as they had the oil in the oil pan.
My Porsche Turbo and the GT3 has a dry sump oil system. It has no oil pan, but a big tank to move more warm oil to the engine for better speed and reliability. Porsche liked winning races this way.
Porsche invented this in 1965. All of the earlier cars had a septate dry sump tank. You had to warm the entire engine first to check the oil level. You had to check it warm with the engine still idling. It had an oil level thing on the dry sump tank.
It pains me to be the one to say it, but your 992 Turbo has an "integrated dry sump," which is marketing double-speak for a regular old oil pan with nice baffles/compartments. The GT3 has a real dry sump with separate oil tank like all the Porsches of yesteryear, but not our cars. And if that doesn't make you wince quite enough, see my under-the-car video below and take special note at the 3 minute mark. Still the best car I've ever driven by a country mile, but I try to put some of the engineering decisions like that out of my mind....
Re: When is the car warmed-up?
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:33 pm
by blueline
Good underside tour Tom. Now I know!
Re: When is the car warmed-up?
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:03 pm
by 911R
Tom,
You never took the panels away.
That little bitty oil pan can't hold the oil required to run the car. It has a big oil tank, and I can't show it today. I have only owned my car for well less than a month.
Please give me some time to show the engine as well as the oiling system. The cooling system is also very complicated.
I only at 300 miles so still well below the break-in period. Despite my issues, I think i can still get you in a 5-lap race at Road Atlanta. Just saying.
I was a former champion racer there.
And I own the Peter Greg trophy.
Just kidding around.
Re: When is the car warmed-up?
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:45 am
by GT3Twenty10
I’ve always started the car, let high idle come down (about minute) and drive normal until guage shows “at normal operating temps” . So usually a few minutes of normal low rev driving (both cars)… It’s because these motors cost 20k plus that’s why we’re all generally more cautious of how we take off in the car etc.
911R wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 6:04 pm
I say when the oil temperatures get warm within all of the engine.
The H2O temps mean nothing to me. I'd only be comfortable when all the internals get very warm.
My Porsche 997.1, 991.1, and the first 992 all got warm earlier as they had the oil in the oil pan.
My Porsche Turbo and the GT3 has
It pains me to be the one to say it, but your 992 Turbo has an "integrated dry sump," which is marketing double-speak for a regular old oil pan with nice baffles/compartments. The GT3 has a real dry sump with separate oil tank like all the Porsches of yesteryear, but not our cars. And if that doesn't make you wince quite enough, see my under-the-car video below and take special note at the 3 minute mark. Still the best car I've ever driven by a country mile, but I try to put some of the engineering decisions like that out of my mind....
I share your concern regarding the plastic oil pan, but I admit the drain plug is neat. LN Engineering makes an aluminum bullet pan if you've got a spare $2500 laying around, and it increases the total oil volume by @ 2 quarts.
Re: When is the car warmed-up?
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 6:28 pm
by Tom
911R wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:03 pm
Tom,
You never took the panels away.
That little bitty oil pan can't hold the oil required to run the car. It has a big oil tank, and I can't show it today. I have only owned my car for well less than a month.
Please give me some time to show the engine as well as the oiling system. The cooling system is also very complicated.
I only at 300 miles so still well below the break-in period. Despite my issues, I think i can still get you in a 5-lap race at Road Atlanta. Just saying.
I was a former champion racer there.
And I own the Peter Greg trophy.
Just kidding around.
All in good fun, no worries. Not sure what your issues are, but I have no doubt you'd beat me in a race regardless. I was once passed by a self-driving Google car in our neighborhoods here. Admittedly, I kind goaded the car into passing me, just to see if it would, but still.... I'm much more mechanical than a racer, so I'm quite sure you'd make quick work of me on the track.
Re the lack of oil tank, I wish that was a joke too, but sadly Porsche started using the term "integrated dry sump" a while back, which is what our Turbo cars have. To me, it's kind of like calling roll-down windows "integrated air conditioning." Here's a good article that makes the point pretty bluntly about the so-call "integrated dry-sump" system being, in fact, a wet sump (oil pan) system.
And if that doesn't make you wince quite enough, see my under-the-car video below and take special note at the 3 minute mark. 
