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Re: Hood problem

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:55 am
by Belgian951
Ok, I got back into the garage and tried a few things. I also took photos (warning, many photos incoming):

- OEM air filter box + filter + snorkel installed: doesn't close
- OEM air filter box + filter installed, snorkel removed: doesn't close
- OEM air filter box installed but upper portion and filter element removed: DOES CLOSE
- OEM air filter box installed but filter element removed and top part loosely placed on lower part, snorkel removed: doesn't close
- turning the intercooler pipe a few degrees didn't change anything
- when the hood does close in the above scenario, it seemingly does very well. Hood gaps on the side and front are evenly spaced

Here are the photos.

Overview of the engine compartment with full installation of filter
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With full air filter box, filter and snorkel installed: doesn't close
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Succesful close after removal of top air filter box and air filter:
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More photos in next post...

Re: Hood problem

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:58 am
by Belgian951
Lower air filter box and intercooler pipes, how they are sitting
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Placing the upper portion back, without air filter element, loosely laid on bottom part: doesn't close)
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Re: Hood problem

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:59 am
by Belgian951
Some photos of the mounting points, but also how the AFM sits in the car
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Sorry for the overkill, but I wanted to make sure to give a good as possible view of the situation. As far as I can see, the car doesn't have any damage that resulted in the metal under the air filter box to move up or be crooked. Everything looks straight.

Hope someone has an idea!

Re: Hood problem

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 1:46 pm
by Tom
Well... the most important step in solving problem is knowing what the problem is, so I'd say you have made big progress. :) Now you just need to figure out why your air filter box is sitting too high, which I gather it must be since the hood closes fine when the air filter lid is removed. That whole air filter unit bolts to a coolant crossover pipe which in turn is bolted down to the inner 'frame' rails. I'd remove the air box altogether and take a close look at that pipe. Is the rearmost mounting point bent up by any chance? Are the flanges on the ends bolted down flat and firm? Any signs of damage/bending anywhere? For reference, on my car, the little ledge on that rear mounting point is almost exactly level with the headlight bar (with the headlights down) -- see the little rod I rests on the mounting point and headlight bar. Is yours about like that? Are the rubber cushion pieces you are using from the factory, and are you sinking them in to the metal tab hole like a grommet (so that half is below the mounting tab and half is above)? I still suspect the L brackets are oriented backwards, though changing them may very well make the problem worse as you say.

Re: Hood problem

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:25 pm
by Belgian951
Tom wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 1:46 pm Well... the most important step in solving problem is knowing what the problem is, so I'd say you have made big progress. :) Now you just need to figure out why your air filter box is sitting too high, which I gather it must be since the hood closes fine when the air filter lid is removed. That whole air filter unit bolts to a coolant crossover pipe which in turn is bolted down to the inner 'frame' rails. I'd remove the air box altogether and take a close look at that pipe. Is the rearmost mounting point bent up by any chance? Are the flanges on the ends bolted down flat and firm? Any signs of damage/bending anywhere? For reference, on my car, the little ledge on that rear mounting point is almost exactly level with the headlight bar (with the headlights down) -- see the little rod I rests on the mounting point and headlight bar. Is yours about like that? Are the rubber cushion pieces you are using from the factory, and are you sinking them in to the metal tab hole like a grommet (so that half is below the mounting tab and half is above)? I still suspect the L brackets are oriented backwards, though changing them may very well make the problem worse as you say.
Thanks Tom for taking the time and spending the effort to check this so thoroughly to give me a frame of reference! I'll remove the lower section and check this tomorrow! I have to perform a smoke leak detection test anyway, so I'll need the access to the throttle body without the AFM.

I just read somewhere else that you can turn out the hood latch pin that falls down into the latch mechanism when you close the hood. Would turning this out (making the pin thus longer) also be an option? I'm just wondering if the PO made the hood a bit too 'tight' so to speak. I don't know if it is obvious from my picture of when the hood does latch - to me it looks normal but I'm far from an expert.

If I look at my installation of the lower half of the air filter box, and compare it with other pictures I found on the internet, it doesn't look like it sits too high. :think:

I'll still remove it tomorrow though!

I'm seriously starting to feel like Sherlock Holmes, and you are all my Watsons - or vice versa! :lol:

Re: Hood problem

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:26 am
by Belgian951
Tom wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 1:46 pm That whole air filter unit bolts to a coolant crossover pipe which in turn is bolted down to the inner 'frame' rails. I'd remove the air box altogether and take a close look at that pipe. Is the rearmost mounting point bent up by any chance? Are the flanges on the ends bolted down flat and firm? Any signs of damage/bending anywhere?
I took out the whole air filter box and checked this pipe. It looks as mint as a 40 year pipe can be. It's definitely straight and no obvious signs of damage. See pictures below.

For reference, on my car, the little ledge on that rear mounting point is almost exactly level with the headlight bar (with the headlights down) -- see the little rod I rests on the mounting point and headlight bar. Is yours about like that?

A good idea to test it like that. I used a straight piece of metal to do the same thing - it's level or indeed almost so. Definitely not crooked or bent!

Are the rubber cushion pieces you are using from the factory, and are you sinking them in to the metal tab hole like a grommet (so that half is below the mounting tab and half is above)? I still suspect the L brackets are oriented backwards, though changing them may very well make the problem worse as you say.

Yes they are OEM factory. Yes they are sunk into the hole, yes half is below and half is above. I did orient the brackets as you said and after putting everything back together, conducting a fish line over the fenders test, it does seem like the box sits a tiny bit lower. Now the fishing line doesn't touch anywhere, whereas before it would touch a tiny bit on the upper box. But his can also be because I couldn't replace the back screw of the lower air filter box - it was too short for some reason (probably mixed up a screw).
Yesterday and today I took the time to check this out (and perform a smoke leak detection test). I answered your questions in bold in your quote. Below are pictures.

After the replacement of the air filter box, and thus the reorientation of the L brackets, the hood still doesn't close. I believe however that there's another possible reason, and that is the spring loaded cone pin that falls down into the hood lock. Apparently you can screw this in or out. In my pictures, it looks like it's pretty screwed in, 1.3 CM (end of thread to bracket - see picture below). If I screw this out a bit, I think it may solve my issue? I'm pretty sure I can rule out a mounting problem with the air filter box right now...

Air filter after reinstallation (hood still does not close)
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Hood cone pin (screwed in too much?)
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Re: Hood problem

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:29 am
by Belgian951
The pipe under the filter box (the metal I'm holding doesn't look as level because I took the pic crooked)
NOTE how in the first picture below you can see a bit of rubbing damage on the tube that comes from the water pipe of the block. This is from the left corner of the air filter box! so it can't physically sit any lower I believe.
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Re: Hood problem

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2024 4:34 am
by Belgian951
Update as of this morning:

I solved my non-locking issue by adjusting the cone pin length of the upper latch! I screwed the cone out to +- 6 cm measured from tip to bracket and now it locks. I think I will still have to play a bit with it to see if I can get that latching when you drop the hood effect, which it won't do right now. I still have to push the hood a bit, but very lightly - very normally.

I did notice however that there's now a bit of a gap in the front of the hood and the front panel. I attached some pictures below. The hood is a bit raised in the front compared to the front panel. Any idea what the normal gap size should be?

The cone of locking wonder - loosen the lock nut above the cone with a 17 mm wrench and then grab a big flat screwdriver to screw out or in the cone itself - there's a slot in the actual pin of the cone at the bottom
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The hood after adjusting the cone a bit more out
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Re: Hood problem

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 7:22 am
by Belgian951
I just heard that the L tabs should sit under the rubber grommet, and not on top like I did. Is this true?

:lol: this thread just keeps growing

Re: Hood problem

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 7:50 am
by Tom
Belgian951 wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 7:22 am I just heard that the L tabs should sit under the rubber grommet, and not on top like I did. Is this true?

:lol: this thread just keeps growing
PET would suggest otherwise, but a quick check of used cross-over pipes on eBay shows them both ways, with plenty under. The hood was tight from the factory, with that snorkel making an indent in the foam hood liner, so maybe folks just did that to buy a little room, I don't know. My car is too modified to serve as a reference for that. :shifty: It wouldn't change the rearmost mounting location, but certainly worth a try. To your earlier post, the hood should sit nice and flush with the fenders, not below, not above. Even when perfect, you need to push down a bit to get it fully latched. If you are not worried about originality you could bring the slot on the l bracket lower, though again that wouldn't help on the rear mount point. Maybe a hammer on that one (just kidding, kind of).