Carpokes

Has anyone else read about this? https://trackbill.com/bill/california-s ... n/2671682/

I hope that this gets ratified soon.

Spencan wrote: Wed Mar 05, 2025 1:34 pm Has anyone else read about this? https://trackbill.com/bill/california-s ... n/2671682/

I hope that this gets ratified soon.

Wow, no I had not seen that. That would be huge!!

We should contact our state reps!

Darn, that'll be a bummer for me here in Oregon. I've bought more than one nice car out of NorCal that wouldn't pass smog without massive expense. My source of distressed, motivated sellers could come to an end!

Looks like Jay Leno is in favor…

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/cali ... 754/?amp=1

I'm not holding my breath, despite the recent endorsement from the Man in Denim:

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/cali ... a/3646754/

There have been numerous iterations of such a bill in the CA legislature over the years, and they always die in committee.

The stipulation of SB712 that said vehicle needs to be insured as a collector car is interesting----is this thing sponsored by Hagerty? I'm as far from a conspiracy theorist as one can be, but this is not a stretch as they already own the rights to large swaths of the "collector car" market.

The sad reality is that the completely valid agreement about legacy smog testing equipment being increasingly difficult to maintain likely does not resonate with the average environmentally-conscious CA state legislator. They would rather see these vehicles off the road entirely, though that would be a far more impractical endeavor than simply relaxing smog requirements. There is a lot of pressure in CA for politicians to appear to be "green," regardless of the feasibility of the matter at hand.

I don't want to wade too far into politics, but I will state that in most instances I am on the side of those who want to protect the environment from pollution. I fully support what the CA smog check program has done thus far (anyone old enough to remember how bad LA smog was on a daily basis should agree with this), both as a consumer and as a professional who prepares Porsche and BMW cars for said test. But it is nonsensical to require licensed smog testing facilities to maintain equipment that is increasingly difficult and expensive to repair in the goal of servicing a dwindling number of customer vehicles.

I hope the bill passes, but again, not holding my breath.

cda951 wrote: Wed Mar 05, 2025 9:58 pm I'm not holding my breath, despite the recent endorsement from the Man in Denim:

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/cali ... a/3646754/

There have been numerous iterations of such a bill in the CA legislature over the years, and they always die in committee.

The stipulation of SB712 that said vehicle needs to be insured as a collector car is interesting----is this thing sponsored by Hagerty? I'm as far from a conspiracy theorist as one can be, but this is not a stretch as they already own the rights to large swaths of the "collector car" market.

The sad reality is that the completely valid agreement about legacy smog testing equipment being increasingly difficult to maintain likely does not resonate with the average environmentally-conscious CA state legislator. They would rather see these vehicles off the road entirely, though that would be a far more impractical endeavor than simply relaxing smog requirements. There is a lot of pressure in CA for politicians to appear to be "green," regardless of the feasibility of the matter at hand.

I don't want to wade too far into politics, but I will state that in most instances I am on the side of those who want to protect the environment from pollution. I fully support what the CA smog check program has done thus far (anyone old enough to remember how bad LA smog was on a daily basis should agree with this), both as a consumer and as a professional who prepares Porsche and BMW cars for said test. But it is nonsensical to require licensed smog testing facilities to maintain equipment that is increasingly difficult and expensive to repair in the goal of servicing a dwindling number of customer vehicles.

I hope the bill passes, but again, not holding my breath.

I'll always remember our family vacation driving to Disneyland as a kid in the late 60's. When we got passed the grapevine and saw the LA basin, it looked like modern day Beijing -- literally could not see a thing, just a grey/white haze. Quite awful. So, yes, there is merit to the concept, it just needs to be addressed with sound logic and reason, and not emotion.

My guess is that the 'collector car' requirement is an appeal to legislators who simply don't want old cars on the road. Per the DMV website, "a collector car is used primarily in shows, parades, charitable functions, and historical exhibitions for display, maintenance, and preservation. It cannot be a vehicle used primarily for transportation. (Vehicle Code section 259)." Pretty vague definition really -- how many times can you go to Starbucks before its 'primary use' is transportation? And how would you even enforce that? Currently, collector cars need to undergo an "abbreviated" smog inspection by the state, which may actually be worse than a regular smog check insofar as a referee has to do the test and the car must remain bone stock to pass. If they drop smog testing altogether on 'collector cars' I'm sure a lot more people would apply for collector status, so it seems to me the bill needs more teeth in terms of ensuring the car is really used primarily for shows and such, if you want to appeal to the greener legislators.

As you say, we've seen several bills over the last decade aimed at relaxing the smog bureaucracy around pre-OBDII cars, and they all die a quiet death. This one probably will too, sadly, but it seems inevitable there will come a day when they at least eliminate the dyno testing and eventually testing altogether. Last time I went to smog my 1979 450SL, I was surprised to learn that the majority of places have opted to stop testing pre-OBDII cars. It's just not financially viable anymore, unless they jack their prices way up for older cars (which sends a bad signal in an industry that competes for modern cars primarily on pricing). We may not be there yet, but just like hitching posts and watering troughs, smog dynos will eventually be relegated to history books. I hope.

Tom wrote: Thu Mar 06, 2025 9:58 am I'll always remember our family vacation driving to Disneyland as a kid in the late 60's. When we got passed the grapevine and saw the LA basin, it looked like modern day Beijing -- literally could not see a thing, just a grey/white haze. Quite awful. So, yes, there is merit to the concept, it just needs to be addressed with sound logic and reason, and not emotion.

Yeah - I grew up in that soup. We sailed a lot offshore in the late 70s and into the 80s and when you looked back towards land it was a glowing orange haze. Glad its better now!
After seeing the difference a good cat makes in emissions, I wouldn't remove mine. Just would be nice to have a reprieve so that we aren't having to depend on declining number of test stations and overzealous techs that want to send you to the smog referee if they seen anything that remotely looks like a new wire or hose.

My personal two cents --

I lived in that brown-red smog mess starting in the late 1960's, and did an internship at Standard Oil of California a bit later, in the search for some magic fuel elixir that would stop tailpipe emissions, improve fuel economy just enough to gain some market advantage, and cost less to produce that whet was sold at the time. Catalysts were the devil, and died quickly on any less than perfect brew. Later consulted to an italian manufacturer trying to get their performance cars to pass Cali certifications even after they had lied their way through the federal process. The good old days! Same experience steered me later to look at the 928, by the way. Passed effortlessly and suffered no performance reduction in the process.

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I lived near the beach for a long time, and watched the San Gabriels appear and more often disappear in the haze. It improved over time, but from my office in Pasadena from the late '80's to about 2000, those same mountains still disappeared, just less frequently. Sold that biz around 2000, and only then moved to a spot above L.A., and on most days had a nice look at the ocean or those same mountains from my home office. During that same 30 year period, the vehicle count in the basin increased almost 10x, with even more commuters from outside the basin. And better cars and progressive emissions standards.

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There are some popular beliefs around the Cali standards, like one that the regs tighten every year for older cars. They don't. The tailpipe and equipment standards for any specific U.S. market car are the same now as they were the year the car was first certified for sale. The proposed legislation does nothing to relax those same standards, it only appears to offer a little relief on the testing. Got a modified car? This won't help you much. Got a tired and non-compliant car? Not much relief there at all. They only test the tailpipe and the gas cap too.

I'll share also that I had a great relationship with the guy who owned a gas station near my home in Orange County. Real car guy. Plus the preliminary test results guided a lot of maintenance effort that helped me keep the car running well. e.g.- My tailpipe NOx numbers were drifting up slowly over the course of years. Replace dying catalysts? No, just clean the injectors. New cats would have helped the numbers, clean injectors did that plus the car ran better. I drove the 928 back down there for testing even after I moved up the hill.

We live in the middle of a green state now, but no testing is even available here. Would be cool to get a tailpipe gas analysis now, just to know how happy the car is in front of the cats. Analyzers are much cheaper in dollars than they were back then too. Hard to justify for just the few cars in the garage now, but within easy reach of any serious tuners.

[/rant mode]

Interesting read, and the changes from the Clean Air Acts are often remembered now only by the 60 and 70 year olds with LA area so clear now. I remember traveling to the LA area on business in the early 80s , returning home to Kansas sick with a sinus infection every trip. Lazy, hazy days of Summer was not just a song, it was the skies of the Los Angeles basin.

It will be interesting to see how things turn out, but I have always marveled at how pushing the auto industry to improve air quality and efficiency has brought us to a Auto Utopia of 400-900 HP machines that in many cases triple the mileage performance vehicles got in the 60s and 70s. My Cayman routinely will get around 28-30 miles per gallon on the highway at speeds my 77 Trans Am would be lucky to get 10 mpg, haha!