Update on 3.2ltr 16v turbo race car.

[333pg333]

This is great news from Patrick! The pain and suffering experienced so far would have caused most mere mortals to reconsider the WTAC path and pursue something cheaper and easier. The inordinate challenge of racing and the pursuit of podium finishes on a modest budget takes an extraordinary passion and diehard personal commitment. We're rooting for you Patrick! Good-on-ya, my friend.

Thanks Michael. I often have long cycles of not sleeping so well. I've spent many an early hour going over things in my mind and wishing I could go back in time. However to date this has not proven possible. I'm sure there would be a very looooooooooong queue to use the machine if it existed!

[333pg333]

Patrick, your past issues would have brought a lesser person to their knees. I admire your tenacity and candor in sharing issues and perspective. Keep looking forward while appreciating lessons learned from the past as there is something to be learned from every good or bad outcome.

Thanks Rob. I think I'm just a stupid idiot glutton for punishment rather than anything clever lol. But I appreciate your kind words.

[Fast951]

Hi Patrick,

What a long and rough journey! Glad to see you back.

Hope this time around you can enjoy it more and have fun.

[333pg333]

Hi Patrick,

What a long and rough journey! Glad to see you back.

Hope this time around you can enjoy it more and have fun.

Appreciate that John. Good to see you in here also.

[333pg333]

I'm in a little quandary here. I was recommended by the machinist to use a certain oil for the motor. They send you a chart (see attached .pdf) and you make your decision based on block and rod material, oil temps. Fuel type and n/a or f/a. So I sent my engine specs (see attached .pdf) and other details to the oil manufacturer (Driven oils / Joe Gibbs) who recommended a different product in their line up. I'm going to go back to the machinist and see what he thinks of this, but am at odds as to what one to go with? If I use the one that the Oil company recommends and there's any issues with the motor that could possibly be oil related then that could hurt my chances with the machinist should it come down to that.

When I asked the Tech guy at Driven why he chose their GP-1 15w/50 over one of their XP6 variants this was his reply:

"Patrick,

I chose the GP-1 15W-40 for a couple of reasons. The 15W-40 is a better fit for your main bearing clearance, your front and rear bearings were a bit tighter than the rest, but I would recommend going to the heavy side in line with the centre mains.

I did not consider the XP for your application because the XP has very little detergent and virtually no corrosion protection package. XPs are formulated for applications that are disassembled and inspected after every event.

Thanks,
Dean"

Thoughts?

[nick_968]

Patrick - my understanding would be that the pure race oil is designed to be used for a short time/ few heat cycles before changing. They are not designed to be left in the engine for any great period of time and can hold water etc which will eat the inside of your engine if left.

The slightly less racey oil, but still a very high spec oil will be a little more long lasting and so on but still very good.

Are you intending to change the oil after every race? If so the full race version might be ok.

If you are not running the engine to death then probably the GP1 will be more than fine.

Do they both agree on viscosity?

[333pg333]

That's about where I've arrived at too Nick. The engine builder just gives you a chart from the oil company and you figure out the best fit. That's why I was curious to see what the company itself would suggest. I was caught out with their first reply. It was short without detail and I wondered why he had come to this conclusion. I checked out the specs on the GP-1 and the descriptors are pretty broad. "... The perfect performance oil for competition cars, custom cars, hot rods, classic cars, imports, and racing applications." So from Classic cars to racing applications. That's why I asked him how he reached his decision and he came back with the reply above. I also phoned their company out here for a 2nd opinion and was told to go with the XP6 range. Armed with this info I then called the builder and discussed this. His recollection of the GP-1 was that it mentioned Classic cars in the blog too. He was honest enough to say that he'd not used the GP-1 product but had had no problems with the XP6 product in the past. The other thing he mentioned was that going with a too heavy viscosity could result in higher oil temps. In my mind I had always thought that a lighter / too thin oil would suffer from that symptom which I suppose could if you went too light. But he advised that if the oil was too thick it would create more friction thus heat. He said to watch for too large pressure drops on the dyno when coming down off load. So at this stage I think I'm going to have both the 15w/40 & 20w/50 (XP6) on hand at the dyno and see what they bring.

[Tom]

Without testing and real-world data, it's pretty hard to make a fully informed decision. One might prove better in the long run, but pretty hard to know until you know with a custom motor like that. I'd probably start with the GP-1 and switch only if it gives you reason to switch. Take my thoughts with a grain of salt though. I've always changed the oil in my 951 absurdly early and often on the theory that brand new oil that's 'good enough' is better than old oil that was 'the best' when new.

[333pg333]

True enough Tom. I'd be happy to switch prior to every outing. While it sounds expensive, it's a LOT cheaper than a motor like this. I think by doing that it will circumvent possible issues due to low detergents. We shall see. Probably quite a ways off getting it onto the dyno.

The next question is of the running in procedure. Interesting to read the various different methods. The builder suggested running it under varying loads (not high boost/rpms) for 1.5 - 2 hours for the rings to bed in sufficiently. Then drop the oil and cut the filter. After that go with the XP6 and put it under some higher loads. That will give us a chance to observe and test some different oils.

[cda951]

The next question is of the running in procedure. Interesting to read the various different methods. The builder suggested running it under varying loads (not high boost/rpms) for 1.5 - 2 hours for the rings to bed in sufficiently. Then drop the oil and cut the filter. After that go with the XP6 and put it under some higher loads. That will give us a chance to observe and test some different oils.

Hi Patrick,

I think your engine builder's advice is sound. Modern piston rings and plateau-honing techniques for cylinder bores mean much less break-in is needed than in the past, but a similar process is valid. The engine does NOT need to be babied, though nor should it be wrung out to redline. Varying load is key---- the engine should always have load or strong deceleration applied (engine braking), maybe keep it to 2/3rds of the ultimate redline.

While we do not have a dyno, we are blessed at my shop to have the perfect means of breaking in customer engines, which is CA highway 154 or the San Marcos pass, which has a steady ~4% grade out of Santa Barbara and helps to keep the engine under load on the way up (which is always being varied by the driver), and then get a lot of opportunity for engine braking on the way down (again yo-yoing the throttle input).

Then change oil, check engine, adjust valves if applicable, rinse and repeat as necessary.