Get a better experience by installing our free app!
Not now
Install
Get a better experience by installing our web app!
Hide
How to do it?
In Safari, tap on the menu bar. Scroll down the list of options, then tap Add to Home Screen.(If you don’t see Add to Home Screen, you can add it. Scroll down to the bottom of the list, tap Edit Actions, then tap Add to Home Screen.)
Tom wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:30 pmCurious if others wait for any particular temps before considering the car fully warmed up?
When you have thousands of hours as pilot in command, you learn one thing from hour zero, respect your engine.
As soon as the high-speed idle drops (under 30 seconds) I'll drive off and keep it between 2000 and 3000 RPM. After that, at least 10 miles till all the coolant and oil reach operating temperatures and have cycled through the thermostats a couple of times. Then the RPMs get brought up slowly. What is the rush? I've also never had engine problems in 50+ years.
As he said^ start it up, let the high idle come down and the below 3k until the guage reaches normal
Operating temps.. if it’s 60-70 plus outside that should only take a couple of miles
Per Jake Raby, the oil should be at 200 degrees before exceeding 3000 rpm. Oil takes a lot longer than coolant to heat up, about 6 miles of normal driving. I followed that religiously with my 718 4.0 and other than having an oil pump failure(that's another story covered in it's own thread), the engine performed flawlessly.
'21 718 GTS 4.0, AGM/Espresso/ Cognac
'17 Cayenne base, White/Luxor/Black
'16 Cayman GTS, great car, sold for the 4.0
'13 Cayenne base, DBM/Luxor beige
'06 Cayman S, first mid-engine car
'86 944 Turbo, fast! Stone grey
'84 944, my first Porsche DBM
Oil doesn’t need to be up to full temps to do its job.. 60-70 degrees ambient… be kind for a few miles, 80 plus couple miles. It heats up faster than you think. The big concern with all this is cool and cold temps…
GT3Twenty10 wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:27 pm
Oil doesn’t need to be up to full temps to do its job.. 60-70 degrees ambient… be kind for a few miles, 80 plus couple miles. It heats up faster than you think. The big concern with all this is cool and cold temps…
What you said is especially true with synthetics.
I like how you put it: "...be kind for a few miles".
Tim Current: '26 911 Carrera S - PTS Verde British Racing Green
'24 Cayenne S - Algarve Blue Metallic
'21 718 Cayman GTS - Black
'22 911 Turbo S - Carmine Red
'21 718 Cayman GT4 - White
'11 GMC 1500 Quad Cab 4x4 - Black Musik-Stadt Region
Tom wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:30 pmCurious if others wait for any particular temps before considering the car fully warmed up?
When you have thousands of hours as pilot in command, you learn one thing from hour zero, respect your engine.
As soon as the high-speed idle drops (under 30 seconds) I'll drive off and keep it between 2000 and 3000 RPM. After that, at least 10 miles till all the coolant and oil reach operating temperatures and have cycled through the thermostats a couple of times. Then the RPMs get brought up slowly. What is the rush? I've also never had engine problems in 50+ years.
That's essentially what I've been doing. That's usually about 8 to 10 miles for me, depending on the ambient temps. I always figured it's mostly about the engine parts thermal expanding to their full operating size. The oil itself is probably good to go sooner, but I always assumed (without evidence) that the engine (or parts thereof) are the last thing to be fully warmed up and possibly the most important...
Beyond oil temp and flow, I try and keep the pistons smaller than the bores they ride in. Pistons sit amazingly close to combustion heat source, and are very low mass compared with the barrels and coolant circulating through them. Keeping the differential piston to bore temp low is key. RPM management is part of this, but load (and the thermal effects) are critical in my experience. I have a loose theory about a relationship to bore scuffing, unproven at this point. Bottom line for me anyway is that load discipline with cold metal dramatically improves your piston and bore life chances.
My little 20+ years part time retirement consulting gig is "automating power plants". It started out with a strict regimen of equipment protection in software, but quickly, um, expanded to protecting equipment from the unit operators. Much of that is thermal management, making sure that pieces of the equipment warm up as evenly as possible. Some is heat exchangers, but most is large rotating stuff that struggles with uneven warm-up. Just a few abusive cycles will easily strip a couple decades of service life from a steam turbine, for instance. Our cars with ICEs depend on us to minimize those from-cold thermal stresses and differential expansion events, and even some warm restart stress when the metal is not yet at full temperature. I know that the mfrs are required to tell us to drive right off to get emissions gear working fastest. Meanwhile, that habit is certainly not the best for extending engine life. In my experience anyway. Treat your baby like a newborn, and it will stay as a newborn for lot longer.
dr bob wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 11:06 am
Can't agree more on load discipline from cold.
Beyond oil temp and flow, I try and keep the pistons smaller than the bores they ride in. Pistons sit amazingly close to combustion heat source, and are very low mass compared with the barrels and coolant circulating through them. Keeping the differential piston to bore temp low is key. RPM management is part of this, but load (and the thermal effects) are critical in my experience. I have a loose theory about a relationship to bore scuffing, unproven at this point. Bottom line for me anyway is that load discipline with cold metal dramatically improves your piston and bore life chances.
My little 20+ years part time retirement consulting gig is "automating power plants". It started out with a strict regimen of equipment protection in software, but quickly, um, expanded to protecting equipment from the unit operators. Much of that is thermal management, making sure that pieces of the equipment warm up as evenly as possible. Some is heat exchangers, but most is large rotating stuff that struggles with uneven warm-up. Just a few abusive cycles will easily strip a couple decades of service life from a steam turbine, for instance. Our cars with ICEs depend on us to minimize those from-cold thermal stresses and differential expansion events, and even some warm restart stress when the metal is not yet at full temperature. I know that the mfrs are required to tell us to drive right off to get emissions gear working fastest. Meanwhile, that habit is certainly not the best for extending engine life. In my experience anyway. Treat your baby like a newborn, and it will stay as a newborn for lot longer.
Thanks for putting words to the primordial thought-soup in my head. I don't have all your engineering book learn'n and experience (or any of it for that matter ), but I came to essentially the same conclusion after realizing a block just can't expand fast enough (if ever) to remain bigger than pistons when running way too much boost.
Tom wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 3:35 pmThat's essentially what I've been doing. That's usually about 8 to 10 miles for me, depending on the ambient temps. I always figured it's mostly about the engine parts thermal expanding to their full operating size. The oil itself is probably good to go sooner, but I always assumed (without evidence) that the engine (or parts thereof) are the last thing to be fully warmed up and possibly the most important...
Exactly and I didn't need an "expert" with a slew of degrees to tell me all that. Its common sense.
Probably one of the reasons why I have never had any engine problems in my long lifetime.
Lake speed addresses this issue in a tech tactics with pca. He said oil temp needs to be 160, also there is some Porsche techs that also agree that this is the minimum temperature they that the car is ready to redline. Also don’t idle. Just keep the car below 4000 rpm.
), but I came to essentially the same conclusion after realizing a block just can't expand fast enough (if ever) to remain bigger than pistons when running way too much boost.