new project

[blueline]

here is what real men want.....
Porsche-944-S-Converted-To-A-Six-Wheeler-Pickup-main.jpg

Towing capacity? Can I dump my 6.2 GMC?

[ROB III]

WOW! I haven't seen that iteration before, hmmmmm, maybe 4 wheel drive?

[blade7]

Ha ha, I bought the best dry weather used turbo I could find over 15 years ago. And I've only put 20k dry miles on it since, you do the math.

I did, the math says 1,333 miles per year. sounds like you dont like driving it!

,
I like driving it plenty, along with my other cars and bikes. I would also do very well out of it, if I were to sell, so your crack about not making money doesn't apply.

[blueline]

I know of 3 944 turbos that were gone through from top to bottom. Shell, paint, suspension, interior, engine, gearbox, wheels, wiring, big power output. 2 of those owners took a beating when they wanted to sell. The 3rd that has probably had the most spent on it, still isn't finished. Want to make a small fortune building a 944 turbo, start with a big fortune.

Not at all surprising - that's to be expected with undertakings of that nature. I cannot imagine anyone doing that much work on a 944 expecting to make a profit. That would be very poor financial decision making if the restorations were done solely as money-making investments. However, if done to enjoy the cars, then all's good.

I'm curious to what kind of beating the two took vs the money spent. Can you elaborate with some actual numbers? Also, was this was something that happened recently or was it many years ago? Inquiring minds would like to know due the nature of fickle and constantly changing markets. That kind of info can be quite helpful to others.

[blade7]

I know of 3 944 turbos that were gone through from top to bottom. Shell, paint, suspension, interior, engine, gearbox, wheels, wiring, big power output. 2 of those owners took a beating when they wanted to sell. The 3rd that has probably had the most spent on it, still isn't finished. Want to make a small fortune building a 944 turbo, start with a big fortune.

Not at all surprising - that's to be expected with undertakings of that nature. I cannot imagine anyone doing that much work on a 944 expecting to make a profit. That would be very poor financial decision making if the restorations were done solely as money-making investments. However, if done to enjoy the cars, then all's good.

I'm curious to what kind of beating the two took vs the money spent. Can you elaborate with some actual numbers? Also, was this was something that happened recently or was it many years ago? Inquiring minds would like to know due the nature of fickle and constantly changing markets. That kind of info can be quite helpful to others.

I doubt any of the builders set out to make a profit, or planned to sell the finished cars, but as I understand it, life got in the way. If you searched back over the last 10 years on Rennlist you'd probably find them. it may look like I'm giving CW a hard time on this thread, but I think he's got champagne plans for a beer market. If he lowered his sights and restored a tired Silver Rose or 968 CS but without spending tens of thousands it might work, because there's already value in the donor car. But outside of a 944 Turbo Cup or 968 S/RS the cars just aren't special enough to make the big bucks. Like all 944 turbo owners, I'll watch the thread with interest though.

[blueline]

I know of 3 944 turbos that were gone through from top to bottom. Shell, paint, suspension, interior, engine, gearbox, wheels, wiring, big power output. 2 of those owners took a beating when they wanted to sell. The 3rd that has probably had the most spent on it, still isn't finished. Want to make a small fortune building a 944 turbo, start with a big fortune.

Not at all surprising - that's to be expected with undertakings of that nature. I cannot imagine anyone doing that much work on a 944 expecting to make a profit. That would be very poor financial decision making if the restorations were done solely as money-making investments. However, if done to enjoy the cars, then all's good.

I'm curious to what kind of beating the two took vs the money spent. Can you elaborate with some actual numbers? Also, was this was something that happened recently or was it many years ago? Inquiring minds would like to know due the nature of fickle and constantly changing markets. That kind of info can be quite helpful to others.

I doubt any of the builders set out to make a profit, or planned to sell the finished cars, but as I understand it, life got in the way. If you searched back over the last 10 years on Rennlist you'd probably find them. it may look like I'm giving CW a hard time on this thread, but I think he's got champagne plans for a beer market. If he lowered his sights and restored a tired Silver Rose or 968 CS but without spending tens of thousands it might work, because there's already value in the donor car. But outside of a 944 Turbo Cup or 968 S/RS the cars just aren't special enough to make the big bucks. Like all 944 turbo owners, I'll watch the thread with interest though.

That makes some sense, but then again, I think there is a market for what Chris is trying to do. The whole idea is intriguing to me and several others on this thread. I sometimes like to see people reach out beyond what naysayers think is possible. It's good for the soul.

Also, it's important to note that there are those who wouldn't give a hoot about the resale of a 944 restomod (most restomods fall into the money losing category anyway). I would count myself in that category as I never expect to make money on any vehicle, even if I completely ignored and discounted the ridiculously high maintenance, insurance, fuel and other costs. What's important is that what's being proposed would yield a very nice, daily driveable, performance-oriented and fun car, one awesomely designed to boot. Who cares if it's not some special one-off museum piece? Not me.

My cars are meticulously maintained and well-cared for, but unless I live to be 150 years old, there will likely be no appreciation from the purchase price. (By the way, that is not to infer that a properly bought pre-owned vehicle cannot be turned for a bit of profit. ) I will add that all of mine are driven which is why they were built. Flippers with their less than 100 mile 2-year old halo Porsches hoping to make a king's ransom tend to attract my scorn. (No offense to any flippers who might be on Carpokes. Lol. It's a free country so have at it!)

One other matter is that, as Tom mentioned, coming in at the intended figures may be difficult. The cost would certainly increase as prospective buyers checked more "I want this and I want that" boxes as many would do. That's part of the fun, actually - the chase and the process.

I am also watching this venture with interest!

[chris white]

I get the thought/questions about this project. When it was first mentioned to me I thought the same thing - $100k +/- for a fixed up 944 turbo? But after going over the concept for a bit it started to make total sense. The demographic is not the DIY 944 group (pretty much all of us here). Its for people that are looking for an interesting car. Watch a Barrett Jackson or similar auction for any length of time and there are older guys in the audience buying restomods for well over $100k. Many of these people were in their 20’s when the 944 Turbo came out. The 944 always stands out in a crowd of cars, it makes a strong design statement.
Imagine a guy wanted to get a cool car and shopping for a Caymen only to see dozens of then each day. It’s a great car but you will go unnoticed driving it. For the same or less money you will be able to get a ‘new’ 944 with the same power and handling and a very limited edition. I had to think about that since that is not how I think – I get cars because I like driving them and if I like driving them I have no interest in selling them (I just have to build more storage buildings from time to time!).
Are there 10 people in the world that fit this description? Sounds like reasonable odds to me.
The other thing about this project that’s extremely important is that we are both in this because we love 944s and think this is an idea that’s time has come. We are not in this to earn a living or maximize profits. As business men we need to have a structure that makes sense and can function as a viable entity – that’s is a whole other ‘fun’ game to play.
So…I get the doubters on how this will work. We could sell a few and get to keep our cool prototypes or we could be buried in orders. Happy either way. Spreading the 944 joy!
BTW – we have already ran this by some bank folks – financing will be available with a 20% deposit. That opens up a very different market.

[944m3]

Happened to come across this while Googling something. This would look amazing. I actually like the tail lights design.

[gruhsy]

You are doing what I have wanted to do since I bought my first Turbo in1993.
The only difference is all the cars would/will stay in my garage.

Trying to think how to articulate my love of 951’s and 968’s


I say do it.

I get the thought/questions about this project. When it was first mentioned to me I thought the same thing - $100k +/- for a fixed up 944 turbo? But after going over the concept for a bit it started to make total sense. The demographic is not the DIY 944 group (pretty much all of us here). Its for people that are looking for an interesting car. Watch a Barrett Jackson or similar auction for any length of time and there are older guys in the audience buying restomods for well over $100k. Many of these people were in their 20’s when the 944 Turbo came out. The 944 always stands out in a crowd of cars, it makes a strong design statement.
Imagine a guy wanted to get a cool car and shopping for a Caymen only to see dozens of then each day. It’s a great car but you will go unnoticed driving it. For the same or less money you will be able to get a ‘new’ 944 with the same power and handling and a very limited edition. I had to think about that since that is not how I think – I get cars because I like driving them and if I like driving them I have no interest in selling them (I just have to build more storage buildings from time to time!).
Are there 10 people in the world that fit this description? Sounds like reasonable odds to me.
The other thing about this project that’s extremely important is that we are both in this because we love 944s and think this is an idea that’s time has come. We are not in this to earn a living or maximize profits. As business men we need to have a structure that makes sense and can function as a viable entity – that’s is a whole other ‘fun’ game to play.
So…I get the doubters on how this will work. We could sell a few and get to keep our cool prototypes or we could be buried in orders. Happy either way. Spreading the 944 joy!
BTW – we have already ran this by some bank folks – financing will be available with a 20% deposit. That opens up a very different market.

[chris white]

What size turbo/how much boost? I've had a lot of parts in my garage for years, just getting motivated to start fitting some of them. 400 crank sounds enough for road use and longevity.

Its a custom Xona Rotor turbo, very wide efficiency band. The 'base' motor is actually going to be a 2.7 stroker that will make the 400 crank hp at 15-17psi. 20 psi will be usable for occasional runs. I will be working on a program to allow initial higher boost for some amount of time (5 seconds?) and then back to stock boost. Details to be worked out on dyno testing. Probably work out a 'traction limited' button for wet weather to limit it to 10 psi.